[Jeff Cornelius asks:]

I'm trying to get more information on the Pullman 12-1's used before the streamlined 10-6's replaced them in N&W service. From Vern French's N&W: Williamson Terminal book I have a list of 21 names (Abingdon to Wytheville) including eight that were purchased by N&W. The N&W Handbook by Wallace and Wiley says they ran in N&W colors. I'm interested in confirmation of that (and what exactly that means) along with information about interior colors and when and where they left N&W. Were they still used to supplement the 10-6 cars, or on other trains?

Also, I would appreciate any advice on corrections to the Rivarossi heavyweight 12-1 car and interior for these cars.

Man, do we have a ton of answers for this question!

[Rick Stone replies:]

The last timetable before the arrival of the 10-6's (Sept 26, 1948) shows 12-Section, 1-Drawing Room (Standard Sleepers) running:

New York to Roanoke	New York to Knoxville, New York to Shreveport
Norfolk to Chicago	Washington to Roanoke, Washington to Memphis
Norfolk to Roanoke	Bristol to Nashville
Roanoke to Cleveland	Knoxville to Memphis
Richmond to Bristol, Richmond to Roanoke	Chattanooga to Memphis

(The last 5 are probably SR cars, but you can never be sure about pool cars) That means there were 26 standard sleepers on the railroad at one time.

The last line for a 12-1 sleeper was Bristol to Richmond until Jan 6, 1957 cut back to Bristol to Petersburg April 28, 1957 on June 30, 1957 it was replaced by a 10-2-1 sleeper.

The 2410 and 3410 floor plan standard sleepers were basically the same but many details were variable. The biggest change is that the 26 lines here were all air conditioned cars, the Rivarossi model is not. I don't have much information about the paint would be likewise interested in color photos of these cars.

[Bob Chapman answers:]

Jeff, in regard to your second question, the key things you will likely want to do to a Rivarossi is add roof A/C ducts, replace the end panels on one end, modify the profile where the end meets the roof, completely replace the underbody detail, and add details such as grabs, diaphragms, etc. The interior is your call -- many modelers only put crude partitions into the corrider areas, since the small windows of these cars prevents much appreciation of their interiors unless lighted. I have done several 12-1's and other configurations using the Rivarossi car as a starting point; the projects were fun, and resulted in good models. They are cheaper than brass, and light enough for your engine to pull more than two of them.

There are a number of good sources on how to do this. Most recently, Pat Wider in Railway Prototype Cyclopedia covered Rivarossi 12-1 modifications in its Vol 1 and Vol 2. This mag (or should I say book?!) tends to be pricey at $20/per, but the coverage is good and well illustrated.

Several years ago Robert Zenk in Mainline Modeler did a 5-part series on heavyweight Pullmans and how to model them using Rivarossi. The issues are 1/81, 3/81, 5/81, 7/81, and 9/81. The coverage of underbody detail is especially good.

Vic Roseman did a similar good series in Railmodel Journal, again focused on Rivarossi. The issues are 10/97, 2/98, 3/98, 6/98, 8/98, and 10/98.

Another option is to wait to see if someone brings out an improved 12-1. There have been many rumors along this line for many years involving many different manufacturers. The latest last winter had Branchline introducing some this spring (now re-rumored to be MUCH later, but perhaps within our lifetimes!) While there would be a great market for this type of car (those nice Proto 2000 E's gotta pull something!), I'm still at the "show me" point, and in the meantime am getting nice use and fun from my modified Rivarossi's.

[Rick Morrison adds the following comments:]

The only 12-1's which were certain to be red were the six cars which N&W acquired after the breakup of the Pullman Co. in 1948. These were Chilhowie, Galax, Lowry, Sunstar Rose, Vulcan, and Cuttyhunk. One of these is pictured in Wiley's book. They were lettered Norfolk and Western on the letterboard with Pullman sub lettering. They also had two stripes on each side like N&W's lightweight cars had. The big question seems to be what color Pullmans assigned to N&W service were prior to this time period. Without seeing photographic proof to the contrary I would venture to say these cars were Pullman green. I have some color postcards published in the 1970's by Lyman E. Cox. They were made from large transparencies from N&W archives. One in particular of the Pocahontas made in the early 1940's shows what appears to be a ten section Pullman in green. Legend has it that the Pennsylvania RR was the only railroad in the heyday of Pullman service to have the clout to have Pullmans in tuscan red. With the advent of streamlining, exceptions to this started to appear. The special color applied to Pullmans on the overnight portion of the Tennessean is a good example. I have seen a b&w photo of a ten section lounge car assigned to the Pocahontas (until 1953 or 54) with stripes and Pullman spelled out on the letterboard leading me to believe that the car was red. You might be interested to know that trains 1&2, the valley trains, were assigned a 12-1 and a 10 sec.-3 DBR car prior to the arrival of the 10-6 cars. The 12-1 was then dropped but the 10-3 continued to run until about 1953-4. Pictures I have seen of the train show these cars in various two-tone color schemes, but since the pics are b&w it's hard to tell what colors they are. It wasn't unusual to see other cars substituting such as 8 sec.- 5 DBR.

[Bill Palmer notes:]

I recall seeing Pullman Green sleepers lettered Norfolk & Western in Roanoke around 1952-53 on a morning train as I watched from a window at the Hotel Roanoke. However, that was many years ago when I was very young. (Not bad for a kid who was seven (7) years old at the time.) That night at the Hotel Roanoke was the highlight of a two week vacation with relatives.

[Jim Brewer writes:]

Mr. Palmer is correct; at least one of the 12-1 Pullmans purchased by N&W retained the Pullman green paint and was
lettered N&W; George Hughes had a slide of it at last year's Bristol convention; I have the same slide and will look for it to determine which sleeper it was.

[Dick Fisher adds:]

I caught the tail end of the 12-1 sleepers when riding between Washington and Roanoke on Nos.41 and 42 in 1956-57. I think those green ones were in the "Island" series. I particularly remember (not fondly) the Island Rose.

[Rick Morrison has another go:]

The only way we can record the history of these cars is from the recollections of folks like Dick Fisher and Bill Palmer. Dick mentioned Island Rose which was a 10 sec. 1 drawing room 1 compartment car as was Island Regal. I believe these cars were initially built for service on the Rock Island. It looks as if these cars were still in Pullman green after their purchase by N&W. As frugal as N&W was, I suspect that if the green paint was in good shape when they acquired the cars, they were satisfied to leave it that way until they actually needed repainting.

I recall, in the summer of 1960 or '61 seeing a heavyweight Pullman lettered Norfolk and Western in Tuscan red dead heading west from Washington in B&O's Cleveland Night Express. I was too young to take note of a car name, but seeing an N&W car on the B&O mainline was a rare occurrence. A friend of mine who had a travelling sales job used to keep me posted when he saw things like this. I still have a postcard dated 2/10/66 reporting that the 10 section lounge car Norfolk County, in red, was seen in Cumberland MD dead heading behind the motive power on B&O's westbound Capitol Limited. I think there was also a Dinwiddie County and Roanoke County. One of these cars now belongs to the Richmond Chapter NRHS. It's interesting that these 10 section lounge cars never appeared in The Official Register of Passenger Train Equipment under N&W ownership, but they were still on the property long after they were out of regular service. Anyone have any info about this? These cars were the last heavyweight sleepers assigned to the Pocahontas, and they ran through from Norfolk to Chicago (PRR beyond Cincinnati). Dropped from the consist in 1953 or 54. All of the 12-1 and the two 10-1-1 sleepers were still in the equipment register in 1959, but by 1966 all were gone. (I have no registers in my collection between '59 and '66.)

There was a question raised about the possibility that the 12-1 cars were used as backup cars for the lightweight 10-6 cars. That may have been a possibility, but available photos don't seem to bear this out. I think with the number of cars N&W had there were more that enough to cover assignments and still have some spares. If you study some of the videos on the market you can spot 10-6 cars on the Pocahontas from PRR, NYC, and UP. So whenever more cars of a 10-6 configuration were needed, something always seemed to be available. However an emergency like a derailment could and did happen. That would require a "make up train" to be assembled on short notice, so who knows what was used? I have read, though, that travelers had little enthusiasm for standard Pullmans after the advent of more modern cars.

[Created March 1999 ]